009 Interview With Productivity Coach/Vegan Ultrarunner Jeff Sanders

Hi friends, in an effort to continue to connect to the larger community of vegan trail runners, I'm going to be interviewing some people who I look up to. Today's post is my first interview experience, but Jeff put up with me and provided some great insight. I asked a bunch of running related questions, some questions about diet, and some other questions that I have a personal interest in. I enjoyed it, and I believe you will too. 

Among many other things, I'm a sucker for personal development. I've been listening to Jeff Sanders' 5am Miracle Podcast for several months, and it's inspired many positive changes to my daily life. His podcast is about much more than waking up at 5am; I'd encourage you to check it out if you haven't already. He does a much better job describing who he is and what he does, so here we go: 


First, please introduce yourself and tell us where we can connect with you more.

Hey there! I'm Jeff Sanders, host of The 5AM Miracle Podcast, which you can find at 5amMiraclePodcast.com. In addition to my weekly podcast episodes I also write a new blog post every week at JeffSanders.com about dominating your day before breakfast. I am a productivity coach, author, personal development fanatic, and avid marathon runner. I also eat a vegan diet filled mostly with raw fruits and vegetables. 

When did you start running? I seem to remember that it was during your time at Truman State, but did you run as you were younger as well?

Growing up I was active in many sports including soccer and track & field during high school. I was a sprinter and high jumper, but never a long-distance runner. I began running as a sport the summer after my junior year in college. I had just returned from a study abroad semester in Prague and I was desperate to lose weight and get healthy again. Running was my best idea to jump start my fitness and it worked. 

When did you decide to start ultra running?

I began running ultras after I had already run about 6 marathons. The more I ran, the more I wanted to run. Ultras are a natural progression from marathons.

When was your first ultramarathon? And are there plans for more?

My first ultramarathon was the Nashville Ultramarathon in 2010. I ran 50k (31 miles) and it just about killed me. I ran that same race again the next year and ran a bunch of ultras in training in the years after those races. I don't have an ultra on the calendar at the moment, but one of my bucket list goals is to run the Leadville 100, which is a 100-mile mountain ultramarathon in the Rockies of Colorado. So, I will certainly be in training for another ultra soon.

Why did you begin running ultras? What attracts you to the Lon distances and the trails?

I began running ultras because running is addictive and I wanted to push myself to see how far I could run before I hated it. Turns out that I start hating it around 35 miles, but that can improve with more running. I love running trails more than anything because I love being outdoors and it's more comfortable and challenging to run on dirt, as opposed to concrete or asphalt. I love long distances because I can transform my mind and body in ways nothing else can. It's incredibly powerful.

Did you dive right in to ultras or did you take it slow? For example, did you get "comfortable" or confident running half marathons before running a full, and the same with full marathons before a 50k, before a 50 miler, etc.

My very first race was a full marathon, so I didn't take it slow in the beginning. But, after that I did back track and build more endurance before I built up to my first ultra. I have a tendency to not train enough for my races, which makes race day very difficult and forces me to have to dig deep to finish the run. It's not a good strategy and I will be changing that going forward. Training makes a big difference and I want to be able to enjoy my ultras, not just survive them.

What percentage of your runs would you say are with other runners?

Zero. I only run alone because I don't know very many people who actually want to do what I do. Also, I prefer to run alone. I get the chance to think, clear my mind, and make plenty of mistakes.

Would you call yourself a "runner" as if it is part of your identity, or is running just something you do?

I didn't call myself a runner or a marathoner until after I had run 3 marathons. It was very challenging to think of myself as a runner for a long time because it wasn't part of my identity. Now, I am proud to say I am a runner and I love talking about it!

What are your favorite pair of trainers, and why?

I have a pair of New Balance 980s that are very comfortable and fun to run in. I normally don't like running shoes with a lot of cushion, but these are hard to beat.

What are some social barriers that you run into as a vegan and as a runner? Things like eating out with friends, being asked the same questions constantly, etc. This question can also be interpreted as what are the most annoying things about the lifestyle you chose?

The social barriers were tough at first. Now, the only annoying thing is meeting new people who think being vegan is dangerous or just plain weird. Fortunately, more people are vegan today than ever before and more options are available to vegans. My friends and family have no problem with my diet and going out is easy. I can find great vegan food at 99% of the restaurants I go to. 

What is your background as a vegan/vegetarian?

I ate a standard American diet for the first 25 years of my life. That means that I ate what most Americans eat: meat, cheese, processed food, fast food, and otherwise really fatty and unhealthy junk. In 2010 I read a few great books and watched the documentary Earthlings, which converted me to a vegan overnight. Now, more than 4 years later, I have tried just about every form of veganism in existence. I have been a vegetarian, pescatarian, flexitarian, vegan, raw vegan, low-fat raw vegan, and even a junk-food vegan. Today, I eat a vegan diet with as much low-fat raw fruits and veggies as I can.

I've heard you say a few times that you follow Dr. Graham's 80/10/10 diet. What prompted you to make this choice other than reading his book? And how closely do you follow this diet?

I was initially inspired by Michael Arnstein, who is a very successful ultramarathon runner. Michael eats the 80/10/10 Diet and promoted it like his life depended on it. I was convinced to read the book, but I wasn't initially that impressed. Eating that much raw food seemed a bit extreme. I tried it for a few months, then stopped. Two years later I gave it another try and it stuck. I am a huge fan now of 80/10/10 and I really believe it's the healthiest diet on the planet. I follow 80/10/10 principles every day, but I wouldn't call myself a person who eats 80/10/10 because I do eat cooked food. My goal is to eat more than 50% raw fruits and veggies every day, which is easy with green smoothies and plenty of bananas.

What does a day of eating look like for you?

Every morning I start with 1 liter of water, a double espresso, and 64 ounces (2 liters) of a green smoothie. I snack on fruits until lunch and then I normally eat rice and beans or something similar. I drink an afternoon tea and snack on more fruits. Dinner varies, but I try to eat a salad along with either soup, gluten-free pasta, or another smoothie. 

What is your perfect smoothie recipe?

My favorite smoothies include all organic tropical fruits that are in season, ripe, and fresh. My favorite fruits are bananas, pineapples, and peaches. In my experience, nothing beats a pineapple and peach smoothie in July or August here in the US. 

What are you reading right now?

I just started reading Spark by John Ratey. It's a great book that makes the connection between fitness and brain health. In short, working out is better for your brain than your body and it's a really good idea to exercise consistently even if you're not training for a race.

Are you a fan of the mainstream professional sports in the US? If so, who are your teams?

I would not call myself a sports fan because most men in the US know A LOT more about sports than I do. I can't keep up with the conversations, so I don't even try. I do like to follow my hometown Missouri Tigers in American college football. I also like to watch baseball during the playoffs, especially if the St. Louis Cardinals are playing. 

What are some of your non-running and non-business related hobbies or passions?

I really enjoying backpacking and mountain climbing. Depending on the trip, climbing mountains might even be more fun for me than running. I also love international travel, so I try to leave the US at least once a year.

I don't believe you're a beer guy at this point in time, but I must ask what your favorite beer is right now?

True, beer doesn't like me very much. I have a lot of digestion issues with all the carbonation in beer. But, I do enjoy a great dark stout on tap whenever I can find one. I live in Nashville and there are plenty of great craft breweries in town with great vegan beer.

You've mentioned that you're involved in Christianity, would you say that running has impacted your spiritual life in any way?  

Great question. Running was one of the main reasons I reconnected with God and my spiritual journey. Running has a profound way to clearing my mind and allowing me to reflect on the beauty all around me. I can't help but feel closer to God when I run.


I want to thank Jeff for taking time out of his busy schedule to do this for me. Be sure to check out his podcast, and connect with him on Twitter or Facebook. 

008 The P-Word and the 8 Worst Parts of Being a Vegan Runner

[More of a list person? Here you go:

1. People say/ask annoying things such as, "But where do you get your protein!!!?"

2. Fresh produce doesn't stay fresh very long. 

3. Fruits and veggies have lots of fiber. 

4. Injuries and bad weather are bad. 

5. Sweaty running clothes are smelly. 

6. Traveling light is tricky. 

7. Some people are mean. 

8. Eating out can be an adventure.]

I want to begin by expressing my gratitude to the meat and dairy industries' marketing teams who have convinced too many US-Americans that we need insane amounts of protein in our diet. It's safe to say that I'm posed with the protein question on a daily basis. It's an annoying part of life that I've gotten used to, and I'm not even one of those loud or preachy vegans who makes sure everybody knows how I eat. 

I could sum this portion up by saying that "people will say/ask silly things," but I don't want to mislead anybody. Here's a short list of things I hear regularly:

"Aren't carbs bad for you?"

"I couldn't live without eating (some animal product)!"

"What do you even eat!?"

"You know, Jesus ate meat." Or some other religious statement about meat. 

"Vegetarian just means 'poor hunter' in some ancient language." 

"My food poops on your food!"

"Don't plants have feelings too?"

"Is chicken considered meat?"

"Wait, is (insert animal product here) an animal priduct?"

"How far can you run?"

"How fast can you do a mile?"

"Don't you know that running is bad for your knees?"

"Why do you insist on wearing those little shorts?"

"That's why you're so skinny!"

Now, I know that many people saying these things mean no harm, and I still love and respect them, but that doesn't make them any less annoying. There, I said it. 

I understand that the lifestyle I choose is foreign or "extreme" to many people, and I'm the first real-life example of a vegan that many people encounter. This sparks curiosity. I get that. I choose to live differently, so I can't be upset when I'm treated differently. 

Now that that's off of my chest, there are a few other inconveniences that I've run into, or continually run into. At the forefront is the juggling act of keeping fresh produce on hand without it spoiling. 

Make no mistake about this, I'm a smoothie guy. 

I regularly consume two or three 30 ounce smoothies a day. I will go on record saying that the Nutribullet changed my life in the best way. 

Each of my smoothies are made entirely of whole foods: fruits, sometimes nuts or seeds, and occasionally some vegetables. I'm able to freeze fruits before they spoil and use them for smoothies later on, but I'm often out of the fresh fruit that I'm craving. I'm on a tight budget, so letting food spoil is not a thing I want happening. That being said, I do believe that long-term health is an investment and I'm okay with spending a big chunk of my paycheck at the grocery store or farm stand, but that's a topic for another time. 

Eating a large amount of fruits and veggies means that I get a lot of fiber in my diet, and its effects are obvious. I understand that this apart of good health, but it can still be an inconvenience. For this reason I've been called a "salad shooter" by more than one person, and I think we can leave this topic alone now. 

Injuries and other circumstances that keep me from running are the worst. Awful weather, having to work late, forgetting running shoes on a trip. These things all happen, and it never feels good to give up a run. 

I'm a sweater. I sweat a ton. I can break a sweat by tying my shoes. Because if this, I've had roommates complain about smelly running clothes, and then turn around and give me a hard time for washing them in the shower or sink. There's no winning here if you're living in a place without a washing machine. 

Packing light while traveling is tricky. Bringing running clothes is essential, as is Body Glide and my calf sleeves. These are the necessities, and my daily clothes and toiletries get whatever room is left after these items are packed. I've travelled and brought all of my running clothes and forgotten to bring spare underwear. It happens. 

Traveling by plane also means an extended period of time without my Nutribullet. I've consulted the Google machine, and I've found nothing that that leads me to believe that I can get it past the TSA agents in my carry on. 

I began by sharing the annoying things that people say to me. But there are people who are just intentionally mean. Honking at a runner isn't funny. Neither is a screaming at them as you drive by. And, believe it or not, calling somebody a "fag" or some other awful insult isn't cool either. The people who do these things are in the minority, but it's not all that uncommon for these things to happen in my short jaunts on the road while I'm on my way to a trailhead. Please don't be that guy. 

Also, I'm not sure what about it is about  eating plants that makes people question my masculinity or heterosexuality, but that's a thing. 

Eating out with friends can be an adventure-that is, if they still invite you out. Some will feel a weird sense of guilt and not invite you out in fear that you won't find something great to eat. Invite your vegan friends to hang out with you; they still like being social, even if they eat differently. If they're smart they'll eat before hand, or bring a bunch of bananas to the bar, or even find something in the menu to eat. 

This isn't a complete list, but these are the most bothersome things to me. I can't tell you how much time I've spent reading food labels, or how much it sucks to disappoint somebody by turning down their home made sweets because you know they used eggs to bake them. 

Please don't read this post as a complaint or a "poor me" type of post. It's just an insider's view of this lifestyle to those considering it, or for those curious. In fact, this is more of a testament as to how much I enjoy this lifestyle that I put up with all of the little inconveniences and I'm still happy. 

Did I forget anything? What surprised you about these little annoyances? Feel free to share below. 

007 My Journey as a Runner/Veg(etari)an

[Hi friends, this is my longest post yet. If you don't want to read the whole thing, no problem. Here's a quick summary: in high school I was a (small school) all-state sprinter with injury problems. These injuries led me becoming jaded on competition and I quit running after one year of college track. A few years later, after transferring schools, I joined the track team and got hurt again almost immediately. This time, however, I wanted to keep competing so I moved up in distance so I could still be apart of the team. I stopped eating meat in late 2005, and only this past summer stopped consuming all animal products for ethical reasons. Now that my time running track is over, I'm running purely for fun and I'm falling in love with trail running and the dream of completing a 100 mile race one day.]

Growing up I had every intention of becoming a professional football player. I spent my Sundays watching my idol, "Prime Time" Deion Sanders. 

I attended small, private schools through high school and wasn't able to play school sports until seventh grade. That year I played football and basketball, and I ran track. Looking back I can see that I was the most mediocre guy on the football field and basketball court, but I showed a bit of potential on the track. I was the only seventh grader to run on the 4x100m relay team-one that included an eventual state champion/record holder and another guy who was an eventual collegiate all-american. 

This was great, because before I showed up to practice that spring, I didn't even know what track was. I did it because my dad was a runner in high school and he told me to do it too. 

Eighth grade was when I had my first taste of real success. Coming off of a big turnaround football season and a championship basketball season, I was ready to go when track season arrived. I went on to win every race that I ran that year. 

High school track began slow, but I eventually made the varsity relay teams by the end of my freshman year, and got early experience competing at the state meet, even if we did lean heavily on our all-state anchor leg. 

From this time on, I was a track guy. 

I tried football and basketball in high school, but I ended up breaking my collar bone playing football, and I was hardly good enough for freshman basketball as a sophomore. I should note that I got my big growth spurt early, and I contribute much of my success in middle school sports to this. By the time I was a sophomore in high school all of my peers had out grown me, and my advantage was gone. I'm about the same height now at 24 that I was when I was 13. 

It was also around this time that I stopped eating meat. I'm not sure what got into my fifteen year old mind, but I had made the realization that eating chunks of dead animals was gross, unfair, and unnecessary. 

There wasn't any sort of graphic PETA video or anything like that -- it just sort of happened. 

I was given a lot of grief for this decision by my then track coach, but when I continued to improve they stopped giving me a hard time. 

Eleventh and twelfth grade were focused on track, and when it was all said and done I had run in the state meet three of the four years, collected a box full of ribbons and medals, and earned a second place finish in the 4x100 meter relay in what I thought was my final race. 

It wasn't until a month or so after I graduated that I decided to run in college. I was convinced by my high school coach from ninth and tenth grade to run on a team that wasn't much more than a club team. In fact, I believe that I held school records for the 100m, 200m, and the 4x100 meter relay. This isn't because I was fast; it was because I was the first to run these events in the existence of the program. (side note: this program has grown dramatically since then, and has seen much success)

The truth is, my junior year of high school was my strongest on the track, and the next two years were filled with injuries, PT appointments, and disappointment. 

After just one year of college track, I decided to hang up my spikes for good and transfer to a community college without a track team to pursue academics and work. I was jaded and happy to be done with the living the life of an athlete. 

Oddly enough, as jaded as I was on competition, something inside of me wanted to give coaching a shot. Timing was right for me, and I became the sprints coach at my high school at 19 years old. I made a ton of mistakes, learned a lot, had fun, and finished the season with a handful of all-state sprinters, and a state champion relay team.

I was hooked. I knew from that point that I would coach track forever. 

It wasn't the success that the athletes were having, or the opportunity to create workouts that I loved; it was the daily interactions with the student-athletes. I got to be there for them, and walk through tough times with them. I coached another season of track, and I branched out to helping with cross country before I made my initial move to Santa Barbara. 

I transferred to a small NAIA school with a historically successful track program. I had the itch to compete again after coaching for two seasons, so I got in touch with the coach and he said he'd give me a shot. I joined the team as sprinter because that's all I had known. I quickly re-injured my hamstring, and had to face the music: sprinting wasn't for me any longer. My coach, who I admire greatly, presented me with two options: move up in distance and keep competing, or quit because my body can't handle the explosive nature of the sprints. 

I stayed on the team, made great memories with wonderful friends, and learned to love running. I ran two seasons of track and one season of cross country. My times and finishes wouldn't indicate that I was especially successful, but I gave it my best shot, and I picked up a lot of knowledge and wisdom along the way. 

Having a few years of coaching under my belt at this time, I clung to what Coach shared with us. I saved all of the handouts he gave us, and I regularly steal ideas from him since I've returned to coaching. 

This brings me to the summer of 2013, and I wrote about this time in more detail last month, but here's a quick summary: I was a new college graduate trying to figure things out, and I was running because I thought I was supposed to; it's the identity that I had built for myself. After months of wrestling with the question of why I was running I concluded, quite simply, that I was running because I can, it was fun, and because it gives me the joy of a little kid. 

It's now September 2014, and two overlapping passions have led me to eating an entirely plant-based diet and running on trails rather than roads, with a dream of completing a 100 miler one day. 

I've become almost obsessive over reading food labels and trying new things with my diet to optimize  my nutrition while giving up all animal products to do my small part in showing love to non-human animals and protecting the environment. 

Trail running is a whole new adventure for me. I was a numbers based runner, and my numbers aren't as pretty any more. My miles are (significantly) slower, and I'm not running as far due to elevation gains and technical trails. This was hard to swallow at first, but I'm enjoying the opportunity to get out in nature and explore new trails more than I did running fast on the same roads over and over. 

I'm learning a lot from trial and error: what kind of foods does my body like? What types of workouts can my body handle? When is it okay to walk while on a trail run? How much can I push this Achilles injury before it's unbearable? 

My twelve years of running have taught me a lot, and, as with most disciplines, I've found that the more I learn, the more I realize I don't actually know.

I'm looking forward to the day when I can share the chapter of my story where I went from 100 meter runner to 100 mile runner.